And then he said: “Mr.

Carrasco, at the time you made that statement, did you know it to be untrue?”

And I said, “Yes.”

Ruben Duran did not move.

He had told me he would not.

“Why did you make it?”

“Because I needed a ramp and I could not think of another way to get one in a week.”

“Could you have simply requested a ramp?”